Revelation 9: As the trumpet judgments intensify, humanity faces a more direct confrontation by the Lord. John describes terrifying forces unleashed, suffering so severe people long for death. And yet many still refuse to repent. The sobering warning for us today is that hardship can harden hearts unless we turn to God before defiance becomes our default.

Host: Steve, as we continue our discussions in Revelation, in our last talk we talked about Revelation chapter 8, and chapter 8 and 9 both deal with trumpet judgments. I just want to ask you, is there a difference in the type of judgment found in these two chapters?

Steve: Well, this is one of those times where whoever divided up the chapters in the Bible did a good job, because there is definitely a difference in the flavor of the judgments of chapter 8 and the judgments of chapter 9. As devastating as those four judgments are that are referred to in chapter 8, they only affect people indirectly. Those are judgments against earth. And that, of course, affects us. For instance, when we lose our water, that affects us. But those are indirect. The 5th and 6th trumpet judgments of chapter 9 are going to be demonic in origin and they're going to directly attack human beings. There is going to be a ramping up in the severity of the judgments that people face.

Host: You mentioned that these judgments are going to be demonic in nature. I'm just wondering, how do we know that? For instance, the 5th trumpet judgment begins when a star falls from heaven. Doesn't that refer to a comet or meteorite or whatever those things are falling out of the sky?

Steve: This star falling from heaven you're referring to is actually the place that the departure from the natural begins to occur. Because, for instance, this star is referred to as he or him in the first couple of verses. And in a number of places in scripture, Satan has been described as having fallen from heaven. Also, he's referred to here as the angel of the bottomless pit. And It says that these locusts are coming up from this bottomless pit, which is tied in later with demonic activity. So, it's definitely spiritual in nature. This is not a meteorite fallen from “the heavens.”

Host: You mentioned the locusts. It says that they have the power of scorpions. I want to ask you, is there any significance to these demons being symbolized by these insects?

Steve: Well, think about a swarm of locusts. We just had one in Israel not long ago. They come by the millions and the whole entire sky is blackened by them. I think that's the picture being represented here by these demonic beings that we are actually going to be able to see with the naked eye. And when you think about scorpions, typically you think about the terrible suffering when you get stung by one. In fact, one of our board members was stung by one and it was an ordeal. We can only imagine what it's going to be like for people who are stung repeatedly by these things.
      In fact, it says that people will be longing for death. And that word longing is the same word that we use for lust, such as lusting for sex or lusting for the things of the world. These people will be lusting for death, but God will not let them die no matter what happens to them. And who knows the types of things they may be doing. They may be throwing themselves off buildings or who knows what, but they will not die. God will not let their spirit depart from their body during this period of time. It is going to be unbelievable suffering for people.

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Host: Steve, the sixth trumpet judgment is some sort of enormous army that is let loose on mankind. I've often heard that this is the Chinese army. Do you believe that?

Steve: There was a time I did believe it. I think it was back in the 60’s, someone reported that the Chinese army had reached 200 million men. So, many end time teachers were saying, “Here's that army of Revelation 9.” But now most commentators no longer hold to that. Now the majority view is that this is really representing some kind of a demonic army that's going to spread throughout the earth killing people.

Host: As you're saying that, I'm thinking of some of the horrific crimes that we've seen in our culture today, where people do unimaginable evil to other people. I think of the young man that murdered 20 children at an elementary school in Connecticut in 2012 and you have to guess that had to be driven by demonic forces. And so, whether these forces are literally themselves killing people or they're moving people to do horrific things like that, it's going to be on a scale that we've never seen or really even imagine.

Steve: Yeah, actually, I had never thought of it in those terms, but this very well could be demons just possessing the people of this earth and driving them to commit horrific crimes, just like you're saying. Either way, 1/3 of the world's population dies during this one judgment. Think of it. We've already seen 1/4 of the world die back in the fourth seal, now we're seeing 1/3 of what remains die. So, in essence, 1/2 of the world's population going into the revelation period has now died by the end of this judgment. That's 3.5 billion people that have died at this point.

Host: Yeah, a terrible, terrible time. At the end of chapter 9 we see that most people even after all of this death and destruction will not repent. And you look at the things that are going on and you would just naturally think that these judgments would bring people to their knees. Why do you think there's going to be this huge lack of repentance in the midst of all of this?

Steve: Repentance goes hand in hand with faith.  You don't repent from the heart without your heart opening up to the Lord. You can see that in people even now that face hardships and difficulties. I remember when 9/11 happened. There was an atmosphere in the country after that. The attitude was, “We will prevail. We will come out of this. We will go through this and come out triumphantly.” Just that rallying cry.

Host: Yeah. That nationalistic spirit.

Steve: Well, that was a very patriotic voice that was being heard across the country. But even more than that, it was just the mentality that nothing is going to take us down. That whole mindset goes against the mindset of being humbled by adversity or suffering. It goes against the mindset of letting a trial humble you and coming before the throne of God with a sight of your sinfulness and repenting of your sin. As well as repenting of your rebellion to God's authority.
      Those two attitudes are a million miles apart. And really what we end up seeing by the 13th chapter is the defiance that people will be in by the end. They will be shaking their fist in God's face, blaspheming Him and hating Him, because He is bringing an end to the world in which they love. The world in which they've given their hearts to.