Revelation 12 brings in great symbolism of the struggle between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness dating way back to the fall of Satan and his angels in Heaven and occurring all the way up to what will transpire in the end times. Join us as Steve Gallagher discusses this profound chapter of Scripture and encourages us as believers on how we can walk victorious through whatever the forces of darkness may throw at us in the last days.

Host: Steve, we want to continue our discussions in the wonderful book of Revelation. We're in Revelation chapter 12 today. A very symbolic chapter. Talk to us about what the basic theme of this chapter is.

Steve: You know, if you get it right down to the nutshell, it's really showing the great struggle between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness. Most of the things mentioned are going to unfold in the last days, but also, it really goes all the way back to primordial times. So, it covers the whole history of God's dealing with man and with angels.

Host: Yeah, I thought it was very interesting that as I was reading along, all of a sudden I realized what you just said. I thought to myself, “Wow, this is giving us insight into what happened in the very beginning.”

Steve: It's an amazing thing when you sit and consider what happened in Heaven thousands of years ago.

Host: Yeah. It's an amazing drama that far surpasses what comes out of Hollywood today, because this stuff is all real. It really happened.

Steve: It is real. Most people don't really think through the reality that there really was an insurrection in Heaven. Imagine what that was like. There's this vast domain with millions, maybe billions of angelic beings. They all have different personalities. They all have different occupations. Let’s think of what it would look like for this to be the United States. You have San Francisco over on the West Coast. You have Boston up in the Northeast. You have mayors of cities. You have governors over regions.
      The president, of course, in Heaven would be Jesus Christ. And then there is His inner council. And there is a council of the holy ones of God spoken of in the Old Testament. And in one of those members of His elite council, something emerges in their heart. It's rebellion against authority. At that point, the angels were still in a probationary state, so they had the choice whether they were going to remain true to God and loyal to Him, or whether they were going to go their own way. And Lucifer was perfect. He was as innocent as a child. It's hard to imagine, but it's true. He was righteous. He was humble, lowly, full of God's love and he was innocent. And Scripture also says that he was glorious. But at some point, he started noticing his own glory and took his eyes off God's glory. And something dark began to grow within his heart. Once that happened, then he went out and started recruiting other angelic beings and managed to pull in one-third of the angelic population.

Host: Yeah. It's astonishing to imagine these things happening. There are verses in this chapter that talk about Satan being thrown down to earth and you've referred already to the insurrection that happened in Heaven. But you've brought out that there's actually more than one fall of Satan, and that was a surprise to me. I didn't know about those. Tell us a little bit about the other falls that are coming for him.

Steve: Actually, Scripture tells us of four separate falls of Satan. The first one is that insurrection in Heaven we already talked about. The second one is the one you're referring to here, when in the very end of time, he's going to be thrown out of the earth's atmosphere, down to the physical earth. Paul called Satan the prince of the power of the air. That doesn't mean oxygen. That means the atmosphere area around the earth. And that apparently is where these principalities and powers that he referred to in Ephesians 6 have set up their kingdoms. So, my belief is that at this point in the tribulation period, Michael and his angels cast Satan out of the earth's atmosphere down to actual earth. And then of course, we still have two other falls that'll come later when they are all thrown into the bottomless pit for 1,000 years and then come out for a period of time to lead mankind into another insurrection. Then they're cast into the lake of fire in the end.

Host: One of the symbols in this chapter talks about the great red dragon having 7 heads and 10 horns. Who is this dragon and what do the heads and the horns represent?

Steve: Well, this is interesting because I just said that at one point Lucifer was this innocent angel and now you see thousands of years later what he has become. A red dragon. The red represents blood. He's a murderer and has been a murderer from the beginning, Jesus said. This symbolism here is very enlightening. The 7 heads represent the great world powers down through the history of mankind that have opposed God's people. Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and then the last one will be the Antichrist system. So that's what the 7 heads represent. The 10 horns are found in Daniel 7 and Revelation 17. Both passages tell us that those will be 10 political leaders who will align themselves with the Antichrist in the last days.

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Host: Steve, in verse 11 of this chapter, there's a statement that we've probably all heard preachers preach about, and I want you to 1st read the statement and explain the statement in light of the context of Revelation.

Steve: This statement is referring to the saints of God. It says, “They overcame him,” meaning Satan, “Because of the blood of the lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.” (Revelation 12:11, NASB 1995) The key word here is martyria in the Greek, and that's the word from which we get martyr. One of the important themes throughout the Book of Revelation is that of martyrdom. But what I mean by martyrdom isn't just that Christians are killed, it's that they are maintaining a vibrant testimony, even in the face of terrible persecution. Something has happened to God's people that has empowered them like never before to go through these dark days with a powerful testimony.

Host: Man, that really speaks to the need for us to be prepared spiritually for what's coming in these last days. Or I could say it this way, that we allow God to continue to purge our hearts of anything that would get in the way of what He wants to do in and through us. You think about that, what a tremendous privilege we have to be in these last days. Just to think that, man, God wants to use us in the midst of this battle.

Steve: Yeah, and it's hard for most Christians, beleaguered, beaten down by the world, surrounded by temptations and the constant pull of the world to imagine that kind of victorious living. But I'm telling you, at least for sincere believers, that day is coming.

Host: Yeah. Also in this chapter, there's a woman mentioned. It says that she will be provided a place in the wilderness by God. What do you make of that?

Steve: This is definitely talking about the people of God. It depends on your perspective. Dispensationalists tend to see everything in literal terms in the Book of Revelation. So, they see the people of God being taken out to the desert somewhere like Petra and being somehow miraculously protected from the forces of the Antichrist. Historical premillennialists, like myself, tend to see this as a little more symbolic.
      And when you look through Scripture, the wilderness represents something. You see it over and over in the lives of the great men of God who have been taken out into the wilderness to get alone with God and to be taught about the deep things of God and to receive their spiritual nourishment directly from the Lord. And I believe that's what's going to happen. It's representing the people of God in a connection with the Lord that we have never had before. When I talk to sincere believers, so many people seem to be going through the same types of processes with the Lord. And you know the Lord is doing a deep work in people, preparing them for something ahead that's going to be very dramatic and very exciting.

Within Jesus’ words in John 15 is a foundational truth for the victorious Christian life: abide.

Now, as beautiful as that word is, it’s actually not as easy as it sounds. As you’ll learn in today’s sermon, the path to abiding in Christ is quite difficult for our flesh nature. But as Ministry Outreach Director Patrick Hudson explains, the life you end up living makes the path completely worth it.

In this episode, Kathy, Rose, and Anne continue to answer more questions submitted by wives in part 2 of our latest Q&A for wives. They share personal stories of how they responded to their husband’s sin in a biblical way. They offer practical wisdom on finding good counsel when navigating sexual sin and guidance on intimacy during these trials. They even respond to a question from a husband unsure of what steps to take after confessing his pornography addiction to his wife.

Resources We Mentioned

• Check out our counseling program for hurting wives

Have Any Questions for Us? 📧Email: podcast@purelifeministries.org

Revelation 10 & 11: In chapter 10, the angels give John a taste of what is to come in the last days. He is given a book to consume which begins sweet, but sours when digested. Chapter 11 shows the mighty two witnesses challenging those who dwell on the earth of their sinfulness. Steve Gallagher continues to walk us through the bittersweet message of God's unfolding plan of the end times - a plan that confronts sin with truth and judgment, but with a sincere desire for souls to repent, turn to Him, and be set free.

Host: Steve, as we continue our discussions in the wonderful Book of Revelation, we're going to tackle chapters 10 and 11 today. And as we look at these chapters, one of the things that stood out to me is that for someone who maybe hasn't spent a lot of time in this book, you can kind of be reading through and things are moving along in a fairly understandable timeline, and then all of a sudden you get to chapters like 10 and 11 and things don't seem to fit. Help us to understand why that is.

Steve: There are basically two things happening in the Book of Revelation. There is a chronology of events. It begins in chapter 4 with the seal judgments. Then there's an interlude. Then it goes through the trumpet judgments. Then there's a number of interludes. And then the bowls of wrath, some more interludes and then the return of Christ. So, this is one of those interludes here in chapters 10 and 11 that fill in a lot of the blanks and the background information that the reader needs to really comprehend what's going on during the tribulation period.

Host: For someone who's not familiar with these interludes, is there a way to recognize when you're coming to one of these?

Steve: I think it's mostly just a matter of spending enough time in the book that it becomes more evident. And I understand that there are all kinds of opinions about different things, but still, if you just spend time soaking in this book, getting the message of it into you, letting the Lord impart His truth to you, and even supplementing it with different commentaries, it will help prepare you to enter into this final period of man's history.

Host: Yeah, that's a great way to look at it. Well, let's look at chapter 10. What's actually happening in this chapter?

Steve: Well, the main event occurring in chapter 10 is that John is given a little book and he's told to eat it. And the angel who gives it to him tells him that it's going to taste sweet, but it's going to end up basically giving him a stomachache.

Host: Steve, as you share that story, that sounds familiar. And I see this in Revelation. There are a lot of things that seem to point back to other Biblical events that we may already be familiar with.

Steve: Yes. This particular experience that John had was very reminiscent of something that happened to Ezekiel hundreds of years before. Really, all the way through the book, Revelation is steeped in the Old Testament. Especially the Old Testament prophets. And that is one of the things about the Book of Revelation that's very fascinating. There is not one formal quotation of the Old Testament in this book, but of the 400 verses in the Book of Revelation, there are 278 allusions to Old Testament passages.

Host: So really, Steve, it sounds like you would encourage a new believer or someone who's not familiar with Revelation to spend some time in the Old Testament prophets. I know one of the things that encourages me so much is to see how faithful God is to bring these things about and continue His plan over the ages.

Steve: Yeah, I mean, think about it from the perspective of the New Testament believer. All of a sudden, John, who everyone loves, but let's face it, he's 90-some years old, and you're wondering, how lucid is he? And all of a sudden, he comes out with this massive vision, and you may wonder about it. But how much credibility it must have added to the whole storyline that you see the Old Testament prophets throughout everything he is saying.

Host: Well, let's talk about this book that has been eaten. Steve, what's the importance of that book?

Steve: Well, there is some debate about what this little book is. But I think most scholars believe that it is at least a portion of the book that was handed to Jesus in the throne room in Revelation 5. I believe the book that Jesus was handed in Revelation 5 was the unfolding of God's plan for the end times and this little book is a portion of that. John is told to eat it, digest the message of it, and then he's told to go out and prophesy. And so, it's his prophesying on the nations that seems to usher in the judgments of the final days on earth.

Host: When you think about what he's talking about, the solemnness of it, the importance of it, you get a sense of why it's so important that God has used this vision to make it real to us. This was not just some theology John came up with. This was something that God put into him. And I think as we're working here in ministry, one of the things we learn over the years is that if you haven't experienced something, then you don't really have a lot to say about it to other people.

Steve: Yeah, and that's one of the real issues with the end times church that we're facing. There's an enormous amount of information that Christians understand and comprehend mentally. But that information really doesn't do you any good if it hasn't been worked into you. And I think that is kind of what's being expressed here. It's a picture of God imparting spiritual reality into a person and then that person being able to speak forth with authority the realities that he's been given.

Host: Well, let's take a look at chapter 11 and kind of use the same model. What generally is going on here in chapter 11?

Steve: Well, here again, we have, in a certain sense, a reenactment, because you have these two witnesses that are suddenly introduced onto the scene of the tribulation period. And they're coming, apparently, in the spirit of Moses and Elijah. I say that because of some of the things that they do. And they suddenly are there to confront the earth dwellers about the sinfulness in their lives. And people hate them for it.

Host: We don't like to be confronted about our sin. But man, it is the mercy of God how He does it. And even, how He's going to do it. Especially in these last days. He will be confronting people’s sin with the great heart desire that they would repent and turn from it.

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Steve: And be free of the hold of that hideous thing. That's what it's all about, and that's what the prophetic ministry is always about. It is to yes, bring the truth, but it's with the hope that people will be set free.

Host: Yeah, as opposed to the sense that God just wants to pound us with a hammer. Well, maybe He does want to pound us with a hammer sometimes, but He has a goal in mind. He wants to pound you out of you so that He can fill you with Himself. Which is the great privilege we have. We were created to be filled with Him.

Steve: Well, that's the offer that comes through these two witnesses to the world population. And 99% of the world will hate them for it.

Host: Man. Well, in the time that we have left, talk a little bit about how this chapter concludes.

Steve: Well, the final verses of chapter 11 basically reestablish the chronological layout of the book. And they're basically describing the sounding of the 7th trumpet, which is going to inaugurate and open a whole new set of judgments that are going to come forth in chapter 16. And this is also the heavenly announcement of Satan's overthrow and the transference of the kingdoms of this world to Jesus Christ. Praise the Lord! Who doesn't want that?
       And so that is what the sounding of the 7th trumpet initiates. And really, isn't that what this book is all about? It’s the description of Jesus Christ taking back what is rightfully His? And of course, we won't see the culmination of that until chapter 19. But it's all part of the process that God has initiated to purge this earth of evil and to cleanse it and prepare it for His bride.

If you’ve tried accountability groups, special software, Christian counseling, and even snapping a rubber band on your wrist, and you’re still stuck in sexual sin, the answer isn’t to try something new. It’s to go back. Back to your first love.

In today’s sermon, Residential Counseling Director Luke Imperato expounds on 1 Corinthians 13 and how it proves that God’s love can break the chains of sin.

Even when facing the gut‑punch of sexual sin, wives must remember that God is still at work. He doesn’t cause every pain, yet He faithfully weaves both good and broken things for our good.

God sees your hurt as well as your husband’s sin. He also knows your need for more of Him—a deeper life where faith grows stronger than doubt and despair.

Today’s Part 1 Q&A features wives who have walked this road and testify to God’s faithfulness through it all.

Resources We Mentioned

• Pure Life Mobile App

Have Any Questions for Us? 📧Email: podcast@purelifeministries.org

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Revelation 9: As the trumpet judgments intensify, humanity faces a more direct confrontation by the Lord. John describes terrifying forces unleashed, suffering so severe people long for death. And yet many still refuse to repent. The sobering warning for us today is that hardship can harden hearts unless we turn to God before defiance becomes our default.

Host: Steve, as we continue our discussions in Revelation, in our last talk we talked about Revelation chapter 8, and chapter 8 and 9 both deal with trumpet judgments. I just want to ask you, is there a difference in the type of judgment found in these two chapters?

Steve: Well, this is one of those times where whoever divided up the chapters in the Bible did a good job, because there is definitely a difference in the flavor of the judgments of chapter 8 and the judgments of chapter 9. As devastating as those four judgments are that are referred to in chapter 8, they only affect people indirectly. Those are judgments against earth. And that, of course, affects us. For instance, when we lose our water, that affects us. But those are indirect. The 5th and 6th trumpet judgments of chapter 9 are going to be demonic in origin and they're going to directly attack human beings. There is going to be a ramping up in the severity of the judgments that people face.

Host: You mentioned that these judgments are going to be demonic in nature. I'm just wondering, how do we know that? For instance, the 5th trumpet judgment begins when a star falls from heaven. Doesn't that refer to a comet or meteorite or whatever those things are falling out of the sky?

Steve: This star falling from heaven you're referring to is actually the place that the departure from the natural begins to occur. Because, for instance, this star is referred to as he or him in the first couple of verses. And in a number of places in scripture, Satan has been described as having fallen from heaven. Also, he's referred to here as the angel of the bottomless pit. And It says that these locusts are coming up from this bottomless pit, which is tied in later with demonic activity. So, it's definitely spiritual in nature. This is not a meteorite fallen from “the heavens.”

Host: You mentioned the locusts. It says that they have the power of scorpions. I want to ask you, is there any significance to these demons being symbolized by these insects?

Steve: Well, think about a swarm of locusts. We just had one in Israel not long ago. They come by the millions and the whole entire sky is blackened by them. I think that's the picture being represented here by these demonic beings that we are actually going to be able to see with the naked eye. And when you think about scorpions, typically you think about the terrible suffering when you get stung by one. In fact, one of our board members was stung by one and it was an ordeal. We can only imagine what it's going to be like for people who are stung repeatedly by these things.
      In fact, it says that people will be longing for death. And that word longing is the same word that we use for lust, such as lusting for sex or lusting for the things of the world. These people will be lusting for death, but God will not let them die no matter what happens to them. And who knows the types of things they may be doing. They may be throwing themselves off buildings or who knows what, but they will not die. God will not let their spirit depart from their body during this period of time. It is going to be unbelievable suffering for people.

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Host: Steve, the sixth trumpet judgment is some sort of enormous army that is let loose on mankind. I've often heard that this is the Chinese army. Do you believe that?

Steve: There was a time I did believe it. I think it was back in the 60’s, someone reported that the Chinese army had reached 200 million men. So, many end time teachers were saying, “Here's that army of Revelation 9.” But now most commentators no longer hold to that. Now the majority view is that this is really representing some kind of a demonic army that's going to spread throughout the earth killing people.

Host: As you're saying that, I'm thinking of some of the horrific crimes that we've seen in our culture today, where people do unimaginable evil to other people. I think of the young man that murdered 20 children at an elementary school in Connecticut in 2012 and you have to guess that had to be driven by demonic forces. And so, whether these forces are literally themselves killing people or they're moving people to do horrific things like that, it's going to be on a scale that we've never seen or really even imagine.

Steve: Yeah, actually, I had never thought of it in those terms, but this very well could be demons just possessing the people of this earth and driving them to commit horrific crimes, just like you're saying. Either way, 1/3 of the world's population dies during this one judgment. Think of it. We've already seen 1/4 of the world die back in the fourth seal, now we're seeing 1/3 of what remains die. So, in essence, 1/2 of the world's population going into the revelation period has now died by the end of this judgment. That's 3.5 billion people that have died at this point.

Host: Yeah, a terrible, terrible time. At the end of chapter 9 we see that most people even after all of this death and destruction will not repent. And you look at the things that are going on and you would just naturally think that these judgments would bring people to their knees. Why do you think there's going to be this huge lack of repentance in the midst of all of this?

Steve: Repentance goes hand in hand with faith.  You don't repent from the heart without your heart opening up to the Lord. You can see that in people even now that face hardships and difficulties. I remember when 9/11 happened. There was an atmosphere in the country after that. The attitude was, “We will prevail. We will come out of this. We will go through this and come out triumphantly.” Just that rallying cry.

Host: Yeah. That nationalistic spirit.

Steve: Well, that was a very patriotic voice that was being heard across the country. But even more than that, it was just the mentality that nothing is going to take us down. That whole mindset goes against the mindset of being humbled by adversity or suffering. It goes against the mindset of letting a trial humble you and coming before the throne of God with a sight of your sinfulness and repenting of your sin. As well as repenting of your rebellion to God's authority.
      Those two attitudes are a million miles apart. And really what we end up seeing by the 13th chapter is the defiance that people will be in by the end. They will be shaking their fist in God's face, blaspheming Him and hating Him, because He is bringing an end to the world in which they love. The world in which they've given their hearts to.

To many's surprise, life with God is not just one joyful moment after another. The truth is, suffering is part of the Christian walk. Wives wounded by a husband’s porn addiction or infidelity, know this truth personally.

Kathy Gallagher joins the podcast to offer clarity, comfort, and a God‑centered hope for wives navigating pain, confusion, and the hard questions of why God allows suffering in their marriage.

Resources We Mentioned

• Hope for Struggling Marriages (Video Series) By Kathy Gallagher
• When His Secret Sin Breaks Your Heart (Book) By Kathy Gallagher
• Hope for Hurting Wives (Podcast Series) By Pure Life Ministries
• Refined as Silver (Podcast Series) By Pure Life Ministries
• Learn More About the Pure Life Ministries 26th Annual Conference
• Register for the Conference      

Have Any Questions for Us? 📧Email: podcast@purelifeministries.org

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We talk a lot about the problems and consequences of sin, but how do people actually get to the place where sin is ruining their lives? There is always a backstory. Understanding why people end up bound by habitual sin is an important aspect to finding victory because, at some level, coming into a lifestyle of freedom involves retracing one’s steps.

Steve Gallagher’s explanation of “The Four Cries of Sodom” describe Heaven’s outrage about perversion as well as the path out of judgment and into freedom.

There are over 5,000 dating sites and apps worldwide. It’s clear people are longing for connection. But in a culture that celebrates casual intimacy and moral compromise, how should a Christian approach dating? We certainly cannot follow the pattern our culture has normalized.

This week, three married staff members share how God guided their dating journeys with intention, faith, and purpose. If you desire a relationship that honors God and lays a solid foundation for marriage, this episode offers candid insights to help you navigate this hazardous terrain.

This conversation is especially meaningful for those rebuilding their lives after sexual sin.

Resources We Mentioned

• How to Approach Dating as a Christian (Article) By Pure Life Ministries
• #393 - Is Purity all that Matters in Christian Dating? (Podcast) By Pure Life Ministries

Have Any Questions for Us? 📧Email: podcast@purelifeministries.org

After the seventh seal is broken, and before God judges the earth, there are thirty minutes of silence in Heaven. Millions of saints and angels stop everything they are doing at the sober reality of the impending judgment. While this is a great and terrible scene, even then, God's heart is still longing for men and women to turn their hearts to Him in repentance while they still can.

Host: Steve, we want to continue our discussions in Revelation. We're in chapter 8. This chapter begins with the opening of the 7th seal and then something occurs. What is it?

Steve: It says there was silence in heaven for about half an hour. I was sitting there contemplating this chapter a little while ago and I really did feel the presence and the peace of the Lord. I started thinking about Daniel 7, which is one of many vivid pictures of what will be occurring on earth in the final days and what's occurring in heaven. And in Daniel 7, I was just noticing how the scene shifts back and forth from earth to heaven, earth to heaven. It begins with the little horn with the boastful mouth uttering great boasts.
      I have a picture in my mind of the Antichrist just loud and brazen in his speech. Then it shifts over to heaven and the Ancient of Days took His seat. Then it describes Him, His vesture was like white snow, et cetera. And then all of a sudden it reverts back to earth again and there's the Antichrist again, causing chaos and confusion and attacking the saints of God. Then it reverts back again. And it's the same choice that we all have as believers. You have the world and the roar of the voice of the spirit of this world, but then you have this peaceful, quiet call to get away and to quiet yourself and hear the still, small voice of the Lord.

Host: You know, one of the things that I've noticed, especially over the last 10 or 15 years is just the increase in the flow and the noise. The amount of information that bombards us from every angle. And the spirit of this world. The atmospheres that the enemy has created in this world is all targeted at feeding our flesh and distracting us from the voice of God in these last days.

Steve: Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The really tragic thing to me is not so much what's happening in the world, but what's happening in the Church. Believers should be able to go and meet in a place that is conducive to the presence of God and the voice of God. But we have brought all that noisy activity into the Church. And so, the atmosphere really, in probably most cases, is not much different from the atmosphere that you have out there in the world with the internet and all the blaring music and the blaring television. That's what's sad, is that many believers aren't getting a different option.

Host: Well, talk about what is happening here in chapter 8. Even when you said it, it just struck me as extraordinary. Half an hour of silence in heaven. Talk about how extraordinary that is and what was happening during that time.

Steve: Well, let's keep in mind that it doesn't say here that there was silence in the throne room, it says that there was silence in heaven. This is a world where there are millions of people and millions if not billions of angels. It's a vast empire of people and angels living life. The full life, really. And yes, it's a happy activity, it's a heavenly activity, but there's a lot going on there. And it's all shut down because something tremendous is rumbling and that is that God's wrath is about to be poured out upon this earth.

Host: Steve, in our discussions of Revelation, you have often said that much of the book finds its roots in the Old Testament. And in Chapter 8 here, we see trumpet judgments. Do these trumpet judgments have a connection to any part of the Old Testament?

Steve: Absolutely. You can find these trumpet judgments right in the ten plagues that God sent forth upon Pharaoh and his followers. But let me take it on an even deeper level. What was God's purpose for the ten plagues? I mean, if He wanted to set His people free, surely He could have done it in a much simpler, smoother and easier way than He did. Egypt was the mightiest nation on earth at the time and undergirding the world's viewpoint of that mighty nation, was the belief that the Egyptian gods were the most powerful beings upon this earth. And Jehovah, the God of this little tribe from Canaan, was considered just a nothing deity.

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      So, God came forth with mighty power and decimated Egypt. And this was a direct assault on the idea that the Egyptian gods were these powerful gods that had enabled Egypt to be so strong and prosperous and mighty in those days. And so, it's the same thing that's going to happen in the end times. God is bringing to nothing all the things that seem so huge and immovable upon this earth. Everything that can be shaken will be shaken in the end times.

Host: And even as you're saying that, immediately things come to mind that are the current day, pride of man. Our economic systems and the political systems that we're building for example. You can just imagine that these are going to be the very things that God is going to bring down in our face.

Steve: Well, that's exactly what the message of Isaiah 2 is. God alone will be exalted. And this is the beginning of it. The Babylonian system of this world is starting to crack and crumble and collapse.

Host: Well, based on that, do you see any of these trumpet judgments that are similar to natural phenomena that we see on the earth already?

Steve: The Lord can do whatever He wants to do. He could bring in completely new ways to pummel mankind if He wants. But it has been typical of Him in the past to use natural disasters, like raining down hailstones on an army or an earthquake. So, I would expect just from His past ways that He has dealt with nations that it will be more along the lines of natural disasters as we have seen in the past, but on a greater level and with a greater intensity.

Host: Steve, we don't have the time to go through each of these judgments, but in particular, I notice that the third judgment seems particularly severe. Talk a little bit about that.

Steve: Well, the third judgment is that a great star called Wormwood falls from heaven upon the fresh water supplies of Earth. Wormwood was a bitter root back in biblical times and the picture here is something poisonous. This could be a comet shower that hits Earth. We know that comets are made up of cyanide gas. Can you imagine what would happen if thousands of these comets started plunging into lakes and rivers all around the earth? Now, I know that seems far-fetched, but we're talking about times when all natural things are going to be thrown out the window. This is going to be a time of extraordinary occurrences.

Host: So, Steve, that's some of the impact of the third judgment. Talk a little bit more if you could about just in a larger view, what life is going to be like when all these other things begin to happen.

Steve: Can you imagine? I mean, let's just take that third judgment for instance. What's it going to mean to our daily life on this planet when a third of the water sources have become poisoned? I mean, even as it is right now, if we have a drought in this country, it throws off our whole system. And when a large percentage of water supplies are affected that way, you're going to see massive starvation plus droughts and rioting.
      Can you imagine the upheaval that's going to happen just from the effects of this one judgment? Life is not going to go on as usual. I think people will continually try to fight back for some kind of normalcy, but it's just not going to happen. There's going to be too much upheaval and God's going to keep it that way on purpose.

Host: I think about the way He works in our individual lives. He's constantly trying to bring us to the end of ourselves so that we might cry out and get some sight of our great need for Him. And He's going to be doing the same thing on a massive scale. And I can only imagine that while it's His judgment, it is still His heart that some might repent.

Steve: Well, that's the whole point of the next chapter and the rest of the trumpet judgments. That is where things are headed. But people will have to listen to our next program to hear the ending.

Host: They will, and we'll be back with that program. Steve Gallagher, thanks so much.

Steve: Amen.

As a professing Christian, have you struggled with sexual sin or some other form of sin consistently? The problem could very well be the quality of your Christian life. With apologetics and theology as big resources in the church—which is by no means a bad thing—it’s all too common to mistake knowing facts about Jesus with having a relationship with Him. Is that you?

Director of Ministry Outreach Patrick Hudson explains this dilemma using Isaiah chapters 53-55, and shows us the way into victory in today’s sermon.