In this interview with Rose Colon, we discuss how we can come to know God intimately in our daily life to enjoy a victorious Christian life.

Mike: Rose Colon has joined me in the studio. Rose is the director of Women's Counseling. Rose, it's good to see you again.

Rose: It's good to be here Mike.

Mike: Rose, as we continue our discussions in Living in Victory, today we want to talk about something that ought to be a reality to all of us as Christians. And what we're talking about is seeking, knowing and loving God. It seeks obvious that we ought to know God, but when you really start think about it, it begs the question, "How can we know God?"

Rose: Some of the ways that we can come into a knowledge of God is first by praying. I think about Paul. Paul shared in Philippians 3, verse 10: "that I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death." You see that the desire of Paul’s heart was to know God. We can pray and ask God for that desire to really come into a knowledge of Him. We can be like the saints of old who came into a great knowledge of who their God was, and of what His heart is for people, what His heart is for the world.

Mike: I think of Brother Lawrence when you talk about saints of old. For those who may not know who Brother Lawrence is, talk a little bit about His life, and what we learn from His life.

Rose: Brother Lawrence is really a wonderful example. This is a man that learned to look for God wherever he was. He worked in a kitchen, and he learned to see God in everything that he did throughout the day. He would turn to God in his heart, and he would just worship the Lord, or thank the Lord, or just acknowledge Him in his heart throughout the day. He looked for ways that he could practice being in the presence of God. Whether through worship, through repentance, having a grateful heart, or seeing a bird on the windowsill when he was washing dishes and just thanking the Lord for creation, and how He provides for the birds. You know, he was just in that mindset. To Brother Lawrence God was everywhere, and God was there in Him. He could turn to Him at any time if He wanted to in His heart.

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Mike: Yeah, he wrote “The Practice of the Presence of God.” It's not a how to book, but I'd encourage our listeners to read it if they haven’t. It's a little booklet, it doesn't take long to read through it.

Rose: Yes, it's a great book.

Mike: But it isn't a how to book. It's his experience of how he came to know God in his day-to-day life. As we're talking about that, I'm thinking about where we are in our time of human history now. It seems like the greatest tool that the enemy uses against us, is just to distract us from the things of God. He doesn't want us to know God.

Rose: He distracts us with so many things. The cares of the day or with what's going on in the world. Our mind sometimes is bombarded with so many thoughts that you can't find God anywhere. You just see it's a fight. It's a battle to maintain the reality that God is with me. God is present.

Mike: And we have to do practical things in our lives. One thing I’ve done is I’ve bemoaned this fact to the Lord, "I'm not close to you Lord, I just don't feel like I know you very well." I can moan about that all day long, but if I don't take practical action in my life to the extent that we can get rid of those things that come between me and knowing the Lord, then I'm not going to see any improvement in that area.

Rose: Right, we have to do our part. We can cry out to the Lord, and we can make choices throughout the day about what to feed our spirit man with. For example, we can listen to praise and worship. We can get into the word of God and meditate on who God is and His faithfulness. Or we can recount His faithfulness in our lives. I've spoken before about a gratitude book. It means just writing out things that you're thankful for, how God has provided and met your need, or just intervened in some way. These are just little things we can do that help us to get us focused on God and the things of God.

Mike: I know one of my great struggles over the years has been at the end of many of my days, well, I'm just tired. It's so much easier for so many, unfortunately, to go home and just sit in front of a TV. We even justify that. "Well, I'm tired and I just what to relax," we say. But we need to think about not only what are we allowing to go into us by doing that, but that we're missing an opportunity to spend time with the Lord and get to know Him.

Rose: Yes. I think about the Lord, how He must feel. Knowing that He created us to have that intimacy and fellowship with Him, and how He must feel to see us choosing other things. And meanwhile His heart is yearning to be with us, alone with us, somewhere intimate with us! Yet we look to other things, because we think, "Oh, this is what I need right now. I just need to relax, or kick back or whatever."

Mike: Well, you really are leading us into what we want to talk about next. I'll present it this way in a question. As we get to know God, as we spend time in the Word of God, we learn about who He is, how He is, and how He interacts with His people. You used the word intimate. How does that knowledge become an intimate union with Him?

Rose: One of the things I think we need to realize comes from John 17. When Jesus prayed, He prayed that we would be one as He and the Father are one. Also that we would be in the reality that He is in us, and we are in Him. It's kind of like the intimate union between a husband and wife. That oneness, where there's one will, one passion, one desire.

Mike: At least that's what it's supposed to be.

Rose: That's what it's supposed to be right, exactly. It's a picture of our relationship with the Lord, how God wants to be with us. He wants to be as intimate with us as a married couple are where we're so one with Him. I think of when Jesus was here, He said, "I only think the thoughts that my father wants me to think. I only do what my Father wants me to do. I only say what my father wants me to say" (John 12:49, John 5:19). And that's the kind on union, the kind of intimacy, the kind of knowing that God wants us to have.

Mike: Oh, how I long for that.

Rose: Me too.

Mike: If He would just zap us and make it happen.

Rose: I know, but it seems like the zap's not coming Mike.

Mike: No, but one day I believe it is. We're going to get zapped one day.

Rose: Yeah, we've just got to hold on until then.

Mike: But this doesn't come by just going to church on Sunday or Wednesday.

Rose: No, no.

Mike: If that's our Christian life, we are going to sorely miss this kind of intimacy with the Lord.

Rose: Yes, there's so much more. I mean, I love where I live. Where I live, we have about 10 or 11 acres. And we have a small house on the property, there’s about three acres that are cleared. But I love when the weather gets really nice because we have a deck in the back, and it’s nothing but trees.

Mike: It is beautiful.

Rose: I just love to sit there and get quiet before the Lord whenever I can. Especially when I get restless or busy or maybe I was stressed out all day. That’s a time where I can go and a place where I can go, where it’s just me and the Lord. I think about my husband; he has a spot down in the woods where it’s just Him and the Lord. That’s his place to go. And you need that! I don’t know how you can function from going to church on Sunday, and then getting a fill up on Wednesday, when there’s so many things we go through and pressures throughout the week! We can’t survive or find God or be with God by just giving Him those two days in the week.  We should be looking for times throughout the day where we can steal away to be with Him. Alone with Him.

Mike: Yeah, and I think part of the problem is our perspective on that. As you just said, we look at it too often as, “how do I get through the week?” We live for the weekend in America. As opposed to, my purpose for being on this earth is to know Him, have a relationship with Him, and share that wonderful relationship with others. That’s the way we ought to be viewing our lives, but we don’t see it that way. That’s why we don’t put the effort that we ought to into this relationship with Him.

Rose: Right.

Mike: Unfortunately, Rose, that’s all the time we have for today, we’ll have to finish this up next week. Thanks so much for talking to us about seeking, knowing and loving God.

Rose: You’re welcome Mike.

When we realize just how high God’s expectations are for us, and when we see how weak we are, there can be a strong temptation to just give up. We think, maybe overcoming sexual sin is impossible. But this isn’t true! God knows that we can’t be free from sin by our own strength, that we can’t live a holy live without his power. But He’s not asking us to do it on our own. He has promised a marvelous gift that empowers us to live in victory. On this episode we’ll talk about the incredible gift of the Holy Spirit. One vital aspect of being filled with the Holy Spirit that we’ll discuss is what it means to crucify our flesh nature.

In this interview with Rose Colon we discuss the important step of seeing our need. When we see our need for Jesus and His redeeming work in our lives, we’ll come to Him and be set free.

Mike: Rose Colon has joined me in the studio. Rose is the Director of Women's Counseling here at Pure Life Ministries. Rose it's great to see you, thanks for coming in.

Rose: It's good to be here Mike.

Mike: Rose as we continue our discussions in Living in Victory, we want to tackle this subject today: seeing your need. You know we have such a superficial understanding of our need. As new Christians, sometimes we think, “I'm a sinner, basically.” I lied once, or stole a candy bar, or something. So obviously I'm a sinner and I have a need for Jesus. But my goodness, how much deeper our need is!

Rose: It's a lot deeper than that. That's one thing I've had to come to grips with in my own life.

Mike: Yes. All of us do. You know the great thing about being here at Pure Life Ministries, is that the men who come to us are in such tremendous need.

Rose: Yes, they are, they're aware of their need. Because they have failed God so much by their sin, as well as their family if they’re married, that they're so aware of how needy they are. Most of them come here just really broken over what they're like inside. And they realize that they need more of the Lord dwelling, ruling, and reigning in their hearts. It's a blessing to be around men that are like that.

Mike: I know in our worship services, you hear the men worshipping, and you just hear that tremendous cry in most of their hearts as they're worshipping the Lord.

Rose: Yeah, I'm blessed when I hear them singing about the blood of Jesus Christ, because they know it's real. What’s coming from their hearts is the reality that, “I need His blood, and I need His blood to wash me clean.” Not only for my sin, but minute by minute, moment by moment, it's just the reality.

Mike: What are some of the ways that the blood of Jesus impacts their lives?

Rose: When they see just how unclean their inside world and their thinking is, I believe as they get a sight of the cross and what Jesus did there, a heart of gratitude wells up within them. In that you end up loving the One who died for you, who shed His blood. I believe that, men come into a greater reality, and women too when they come here for a visit, the wives as well, that they just have a greater appreciation for what Jesus did on the cross. Because it becomes very evident that without Him, there's no hope for me.

Mike: Yes. It really creates a desperation, doesn't it?

Rose: Yeah. What happens is a lot of the men that come here realize, "I can't fix myself." I've tried to fix myself, but I can't. So they're at their wits end and they realize, "I need someone greater than myself to help me to change."

Mike: Sure. You mentioned the women. We certainly don't want to leave them out, because you see this same thing occurring in the lives of the women who go through our Overcomers at Home Program.

Rose: Yes. It's a blessing to work with them over the phone, because some of them don't get to visit here. Yet you see the Lord revealing Himself to them in the same way through the studies and through the CD's they listen to. It's just a blessing to see the Holy Spirit working in their hearts as well, making the cross real to them too.

Mike: Amen. Well Rose, I know as the Director of Women's Counseling here, you can't take those women—and certainly the men counseling here can't take those men—any  further than they've gone themselves. Talk to us a little bit about how God used Jeff's sin to help you to see your own need for God.

Rose: Well, I can think back to what you just opened with earlier. When I came to the Lord, I was aware that I was a sinner. But what I didn't realize is how much I needed Jesus inside to change my heart. When Jeff's sin came to the light and he went to Pure Life, and I got involved with the counseling at Pure Life, I started seeing how desperately I needed Jesus in my heart, to change my heart. Because I saw that my heart was just as wicked as His. I still had pride and selfishness issues, judging others, loving self. There were so many hard issues in my heart that I wasn't aware of, until Jeff's sin came into the light and God started showing me what I'm like inside.

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Mike: We sometimes say to the men that, God used their sexual sin as an excuse to bring them here.  It's just as true that sometimes God uses the sin of the husband to point out the need for the wife.

Rose: Sure, because I didn't realize how desperate my need was either. I just saw when my husband was in this sin, that he had this great need. But God started pointing the mirror back on me and saying, "your need is just as great, if not greater."

Mike: You know Rose, I think that sometimes our response to God showing us our need is really for us to run away from God. We almost feel like, "Well, then God doesn't really love me, because look, He’s just showing me how bad I am." But that's not the response He desires from us, is it?

Rose: No, He doesn't. What I've seen is when the Lord is showing me something about myself in my heart, I realize, "Lord I have nobody else to turn to but you! If I want to run from you, that's foolish because self is still there. Wherever I go, or if I try to change my surroundings, the problem is in me!" Self is still there. In that awareness I realize, Lord you're the only one who can really help me. And you're the one I really need.

Mike: We talk a lot about mercy here. And one of the aspects about Mercy is that it meets every need. In that, of course, we learn about Jesus. He wants to meet our every need. So, He's showing us our need. He wants us to see our need, so that we will come to Him and He can meet it.

Rose: Right. I think where I've seen people get tripped up in counseling, is when they start to see heart. It's difficult when God shows them attitudes of their heart that aren't right, especially as they go through the bible study The Walk of Repentance. I have one lady that I was counseling yesterday who had mentioned, "It's all negative. You know I'm waiting for God to love on me, it's all just negative." So I said to her, "No, you're not seeing it right," And I read to her Hebrews 12 where it talks about how "He disciplines those He loves" (Hebrews 12:6).  And I said, "He's loving all over you! It just doesn't feel like it, but He's loving all over you right now." That's the thing we must realize.

It's right for Him to correct things that are not right in our heart. Not only in our relationship towards Him, but towards our neighbor too. So, the proof of our adoption as sons and daughters of God is His discipline, because a father disciplines his children. Not to beat them over the head, but because He wants them to be free. Free to be able to love, and not have all these hang-ups, and all the stuff that keeps them bound up inside. He wants to set us free.

Mike: He wants to set us free from the issues of our heart that aren't right. But we can't deal with them if we don't know what they are.

Rose: Right, and we don't acknowledge them. We just keep sweeping them under the rug and pretending, “No that's not true. No, I'm not like that.” He just wants us to say, "Yeah that's me, through and through. I know I need to repent, and my hope is Jesus. I'm going to trust that as I submit myself to Him, to do His words, in whatever He's telling me to do in that time, whether it's through my leaders, through the word of God or the Holy Spirit, He's going to change me.  

Mike: Yeah, amen. Rose Colon, thanks so much for talking to us about seeing your need.

Rose: Okay Mike.

If you want to live in victory over sin, you must see that you are helpless to save yourself. However, the culture and prosperity of our day has made it possible to ignore our helplessness and allow us to live life without acknowledging God. But this self-dependence leaves us blind to our true spiritual condition, and separated from the God who yearns to meet our every need. In this week’s show, we discuss this relationship between seeing our need and gaining victory over sexual sin with three counselors from the Pure Life Ministries Residential Program.

Every single person, regardless of their age or personality type, is vulnerable to the sin of pride. So in these next four episodes, we’re going to look at some of the most common expressions of pride. In this episode we start with the type of pride found in those who want to be at the top and in the center.

Joining us is Dustin Renz, pastor and founder of Make Way Ministries. Not only does he share what he has learned from his years of ministry experience, but also from his own personal battles with this kind of pride.

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Many Christians have looked to psychology and behavior modification to overcome sexual addiction. In this interview, Steve Gallagher points to the impossibility of overcoming sin through human effort and shows us the need for a transformed heart.

Mike: Steve, we want to deal today with a question which we often hear when we are out on the road speaking. It has to do with the book, Every Man's Battle by Steve Arterburn as well as the workshops that are based on that material. The question is this, how does that material compare with what we are doing here at Pure Life Ministries, in our Residential Program, Overcomers at Home Program, and in our Call to Purity weekends?

Steve: First of all, comparing the two really is a matter of apples and oranges. Steve Arterburn did a great service for the American church, writing Every Man's Battle, in that it really brought sexual lust to the forefront, along with Promise Keepers. Those two things really helped to bring the issue of just the regular guys out there dealing with the sexualized culture and what they face. I appreciate it for that. But we've got to remember that Steve Arterburn's a psychologist, and his answers are largely based upon the concept of behavioral modification. Our approach here at Pure Life is really, completely different. We see sexual sin and lust as a spiritual issue primarily. And if that's the case, what must happen for the person is a real change of heart. Something must transpire within their heart to set them on a new course.

Mike: I know it's very often true Steve, that the men who come to us, and most of them are men that have been involved with sexual sin for years, that they have tried changing their behavior but then find themselves slipping back into sin because real heart change didn't occur.

Steve: Right, as a minister my greatest concern is that a person's heart is where it needs to be with God. I'm not so much concerned about the outward actions nearly as much as I'm concerned about what's going on in their heart.

Mike: We certainly live in a very sexualized world. The men that are in the church today are constantly going to be bombarded by temptation and sexual images. They really do need to know how to deal with that at the heart level.

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Steve: Yes, I feel like God can do such a work inside a man, that he can at least more effectively handle the kind of imagery that he's going to face in this culture with a changed heart, with a renewed spirit, a passion for God and a passion to live a holy life. When those things are in place inside Him and then he gets confronted by images, it's not a matter of snapping a rubber band or something. It's a matter of the desires of his heart, and what is really the driving passions of his heart.

Mike: It's so often that if we approach this from the wrong perspective, when we're looking at the issue of sexual sin and of temptation, it can become a list of do’s and don'ts, as opposed to getting those things out of my life that get in the way of my relationship with God.

Steve: The bottom line I can say is this Mike, you cannot win the battle with the flesh by the flesh. We need something outside of ourselves to win this battle. If we are left to our own devices, our own determination, we're in trouble. Because our flesh nature, which is very much part of us, desires sin and will always desire sin. We need God's work inside of us and His Spirit working within us, to help us live a life of victory.

Mike: Amen. Steve Gallagher, thanks so much.

Steve: Great to be here with you Mike.

Understanding the heart of God is critical for a life of victory. And the revelation of His will for us in Scripture is a love that calls us out of the world and out of sin and bondage to live in fellowship with Him. When we see this desire, this jealous love for us, it should compel us to reach out for a deeper, more intimate relationship with Him. And that, is the beginning of really living in victory.

In this message given by Pastor Ed Buch in Pure Life’s chapel, he exhorts us to be honest in confessing our sins to God and if necessary to people, so that truth can be in our hearts and we can enjoy unhindered fellowship with God. (from our Podcast Episode #405 - World of Lies: The Painful Fight for Truth)

As we were singing the song Here I Am to Worship a minute ago, a verse came to mind out of John 4. "But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshippers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth" (John 4:23-24).

If you want to turn with me, I'm actually over in Acts, the end of chapter 4 and into chapter 5. "Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common. And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all. Nor was there anyone among them who lacked, for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of things that were sold, and laid them at the apostles' feet; and they distributed them to each as anyone had need. And Joses, who was also named Barnabas by the apostles (which is translated Son of Encouragement), a Levite of the country of Cyprus, having land, sold it, and brought the money and laid it at the apostles' feet" (Acts 4:32-37).

Now here's the contrast. "But a certain man named Ananias, with Saphira his wife, sold a possession. And he kept back part of the proceeds, his wife also being aware of it, and brought a certain part and laid it at the apostles' feet. But Peter said 'Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God.' Then Ananias, hearing those words, fell down and breathed his last. So great fear came upon all those who heard these things. And the young men arose and wrapped him up, carried him out, and buried him. Now it was about three hours later when his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. And Peter answered her, 'Tell me whether you sold the land for so much?' She said 'Yes, for so much.' Then Peter said to her. ‘How is it that you have agreed together to test the Spirit of the Lord? Look, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out.' Then immediately she fell down at his feet and breathed her last. And the young men came in and found her dead, and carrying her out, buried her by her husband. So great fear came upon all the church and upon all who heard these things" (Acts 5:10-11).

As I was pondering all of this before the Lord this morning, I felt very convicted myself. So even sharing this is hard in many ways. But I could see almost like this continuum of God's will being over here, while my will is over there. And instead of just letting go of my own will and coming over here and saying God's will should prevail, I spend a lot of time trying to do two things. One is trying to redefine God's will into something less than it is. God has a standard of holiness. Glenn Meldrum has preached about that in his first message. Pastor Steve has written a book, "Intoxicated with Babylon," which is essentially about that. God has got a standard of holiness that He expects of us. We spend far too much time trying to take issue with that, and we redefine it into something less than it is so that we can excuse ourselves from it.

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The other thing that I spend a lot of time doing is projecting my holiness, my personal holiness, as something higher, or maybe I should say deeper than it is. Essentially, that's lying. If I'm presenting something as different than it is, that's a lie. You know there are different ways to even do that. There are people who are just living in blatant sin sometimes. They're just blatantly breaking God's commands or the rules of this program, and if you confront them about it, they'll just lie to your face. If you say to them, "Did you sell the land for so much?" they’re response is, "Yes, that's how much we sold it for, I gave it all to you." But there's no truth in that statement. It's a lie, a bald-faced lie right at the outset. And there are people like that, but more so I suspect there are those of us who don't tell everything to others that they really ought to know about us personally, or about a situation. We obscure the truth by withholding it.

God is after truth in the inward parts. That takes complete disclosure, not a partial disclosure. I've seen this. For some guys you have to ask him very specific questions to get anything out of him. You can't just say "How are you doing," or "How's your lust problem?" You have to say, “did you do X or did you do Y. If you did, when? How long? How often?” You can't get anything out of him unless you ask the right question that elicits the answer. Even then, it's vague, or brief, with as little information as possible that comes out of Him. That's not truth in the inward parts. Don't kid yourself. If you're playing that game, and that's all it is, it's you who pays the price for that kind of deception. It won't work, it won't help you. Your life won't be a life that God can honor and bless. And you won't have the relationship with God that comes out of truth in the inward parts.

There's another aspect of this that I'd like to say. Husbands, we do this with our wives a lot. We force them to ask us the specific question in order for them to get the information they really should have from us. And we need to stop that. Another thing I've seen is maintaining control of the truth, in a sense, by piecemealing our confessions. We may eventually get around to telling the whole truth, but it comes out in a little nugget here or there, that I never have to face the full consequences of what I did, because I'm controlling the timing and the way that the information is coming out. That again is just defeating, to say the least.  

Then there's the side of us that gives false information. It's not just that we obscure the truth. It's that I can present myself at a level of holiness that's higher and deeper than what I've attained. So, I'm giving false information in that respect. Usually that happens in our setting here when you tell the other person what you think they want to hear from you. You know what you should be saying and able to say, so you go ahead and say that. But inside, if you are honest, you would know that it’s not true. That's not the way I really felt, and that's not what was inside my heart in that situation. The problem with all this lying, is it's all about self. It's just protecting self. It's looking out for self. So, you've got self, and you've got God. You've got to deny self, let self be crucified, and let God reign.

This was such as strong and heavy burden after I read this this morning that I felt compelled to share that. We need truth in our inward parts. God is seeking men who will worship Him in spirit and in truth. It's one thing to know something of His love, but to be able to reciprocate that love there has to be truth in the inward parts. And that's what God wants, a complete relationship with you.

If sexual sin has ruined your life, then “living in victory” might sound like a fairy tale, or even a cruel joke. But living in victory is not only possible, it's God’s will for you. He has made a way for you to lay hold of it. In our new series, we want to help you understand how you truly can live that victorious life, but the first thing we need to do is to make sure we’re all on the same page. So this week, we're going to make sure that we have a right understanding of true Christian victory.

Pride comes as naturally to humans as breathing. It is the attitude that comes out of the self-life, and it strengthens and fortifies the self-life. Our self-life is at the root of all sin, so if we want true freedom from sin we must allow God to deal with our pride.

In this episode, we look at what allows pride to flourish and grow in a person’s heart, what will happen if it is left unchecked, and the value in fighting against it.

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Nearly every Christian can name half a dozen ministry leaders of evangelical churches who have fallen due to sexual sin. How does this happen to men of God who are leaders in the church? In this final installment in our series The Church Addicted, we'll look at the role of the leader, and ask what happens when a leader is compromised by sexual sin.

We brought Pastor Ed Buch into the studio a few years back to follow up on an article he wrote called “Battle to a Beautiful Mind.” He shows us from the commands of Scripture as well as his own personal experience, that it’s possible for us to have victory over impure thoughts as well the sinful acts that can result from them. His words brought hope that if we spend time with God in prayer and learn to take every though captive to obey Christ, we can have a mind, and thus a life, that is pleasing to God.

Mike: Ed Buch has joined me in the studio. Ed it's great to see you, thanks for coming in to talk with us today.

Ed: Hi Mike, it's good to be here.

Mike: Ed you have written an article that is posted on our website entitled, the battle to a beautiful mind. As I was reviewing your article this morning, the verse came to my mind, "bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ" (2 Corinthians 10:5). I remember the first time that I read that verse I thought to myself, “Great! How do I do that?” You started this article by kind of underscoring the reality that this is really something that God cares about. Talk about that.

Ed: Yes, God cares about it a great deal. Obviously, the fact that He would say something like that in scripture tells us that He cares a great deal about every thought. Not just our thoughts as a total package, but every individual thought is to be brought into captivity to the obedience of Christ.

Mike: You mentioned in the beginning of the article that you have some experience in this area personally. Talk a little bit about that experience, dealing with taking your thoughts captive.

Ed: Sure. For me this has been a huge problem in my life, from the early attempts to walk out the Christian life. I walked around with the notion that if I attended church regularly and did some good, spiritual things that I could endure a few hits to my thought life. But that wasn’t the case. If you look at it like a boat, I had holes all over the place and this eventually caused me to sink.

Mike: I know that people who struggle with thoughts, which they know are not pleasing to the Lord, sometimes will try to endure it or white knuckle it. But man, the Lord seems to have so much more for us than just enduring these things. He really wants us to have victory over these things, doesn't He?

Ed: Yes, absolutely. My passion is to try and relate to people that you don't have to spend your life dwelling on impure thoughts. You can have victory over that.

Mike: You've said that you've learned that success doesn't come in the form of some secret formula.

Ed: Well, as the article goes on, I talk about several practical things that we can do to bring us into victory in our thought life. But the reality is that those things aren't in and of themselves going to be cure-alls. Even if I commit to that fully, it's not going to automatically result in victory.

Mike: Okay. Let's park there for a moment Ed, because I know what is really on your heart. It's to talk about what the foundation of victory needs to be laid on.

Ed: Anyone who wants to pursue victory over their thought life is going to have to have the help of God. It's not just knowing God or being able to talk about Him in a theological sense, it's having a personal, dynamic relationship, a one-on-one connection with God, where He's truly real to you. It's about having a relationship with God that isn't a means to an end, but is the end itself.

Mike: Yes, the goal here is a relationship with God. I want you to talk a little bit more about that, because so many people have been in church for so many years. Everybody thinks they have a relationship with God. But I want you to talk about what that relationship became to you, which gave you the incentive to be able to overcome the thoughts that you were struggling with.

Ed: For me, it was being able to see Him as my Father, and that He truly loved me. It was having a connection with Him every day that lasted throughout the day. So, it wasn't just a compartmentalized thing that I did in the morning or the evening, and checked off my list, but it was a relationship that I worked on throughout the day and realized that He was with me. That became so real to me when I came to Pure Life Ministries, where I began to wholeheartedly seek the Lord. He began to reveal Himself to me, and I began to experience His presence with me, and His thoughts slowly became my thoughts. It's just a very special relationship that you enter into with Him. I realized that He knows all my thoughts. You know we haven't really mentioned that, but none of them are hidden from Him.

Mike: Yes, that's true. And He loves us anyway!

Ed: Yes. I found that I don't need to hide them in shame like I attempted to do. When you really realize that He knows all of you and He loves you, there's a breaking that comes with that. I'm no longer worried about keeping a to do list. I'm wanting to honor Him, I'm wanting to please Him, I'm wanting to hear His voice, I'm wanting to spend time with Him. Then my though life just falls into place where it belongs.

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Mike: That kind of leads us, if I could, to some of the practical things that in and of themselves are not the answer. We've laid the foundation of the answer, I think. It's a relationship with the Lord. It's a loving, intimate relationship with Him. Our desire is not to keep all the rules. Our desire is to live a holy life that is pleasing to Him. But there are some practical things that we can do and need to do, in order to develop that relationship, which ultimately will help us to deal with these thoughts we are struggling with.

Ed: The first thing that I laid out in the article was about coming to that place where you realize your thoughts are going in a wrong direction. I call it breaking the trance. You can sit there, and it's almost like you are in a trance. Your mind is just going down that path, and unless you do something to break that trance, you're just likely going to keep going down it until it provokes some kind of outward sin.

Mike: It's just by default. In auto pilot we are walking in the flesh. That is just our natural position to walk in. We must grab hold of the controls and we must choose to walk in the Spirit.

Ed: Right. A very practical way that this works out is, when I'm sitting at the computer and it starts, and I get up. A lot of times it really doesn't take very much to break the trance. It's just a minute or so of some other diversionary activity.

Mike: You mentioned also, to pray.

Ed: Pray, yes. We really tend to neglect our weapon of prayer. It's probably the most essential weapon that we have because it goes back to building up the relationship with God. Prayer is absolutely essential. That's one of the key components of developing that relationship. Then you can bring that into the very practical realm of asking God for deliverance from impure thoughts. You can ask for His Spirit to work in you help you when you are dwelling on impure thoughts so that you can cut them off sooner.

Mike: Yes. Maybe this is particularly true to men, I don't know, but we somehow naturally slip into the thinking, “I need to do this.” Well, good luck buddy! I've discovered in my life that every time I try to do it, I fail. We desperately need God's help. Thirdly, you said that you really need to get serious about applying the admonition given by the Apostle Paul, "Do not be conformed to this world" (Romans 12:2). Talk about what that means.

Ed: When Paul wrote, "Do not be conformed to this world," the world was of course a lot different in many ways, but in some ways, it was very much the same. Believers in every generation have always had the tendency to conform to the world's standard in their lives. The activities they participate in, the activities they’re involved in and the things that they spend their time doing. There's worldliness that is involved in many of those things. When Paul said, "Do not be conformed to the world," he was telling us we need to separate. There needs to be a distinction between my life and the life of one who is caught up in the things of the world.

Mike: I would take it even a step further. It's not just the outward things we do, but even more importantly it's the attitudes of our heart.

Ed: That's right Mike. That's ultimately what God is really after in all of this. Even in our thought life. He wants us to have a pure thought life, but it's because He wants our hearts. And if I can go even further with that, God wants us to be like Him.

Mike: You know we have the wonderful promise, that one day we will see Him as He is and we will be like Him, (1 John 3:2). I want you to say something that will encourage the fellas and ladies out there that may have really battled with this and have failed, and they really haven't seen the victory. Just encourage them to keep fighting.

Ed: Well, that's kind of easy to do, really, because there's nothing worse in my mind than being like I was before. I was bound up in a darkness and an oppression, and suicidal thoughts. All of that was going on, and I was really to be able to come into the light out of that. I realized that I didn't have to stay there. At any point while I was in the darkness I could have turned to the Lord, and He could have brought me out of that. There's life and joy and a relationship with God that supersedes everything else, that makes it all worth it.

Mike: Amen. Well thanks for coming in and talking to us about the battle to a beautiful mind.