When Chris looked at Marissa, he saw a woman who would help him control his lust. He saw someone who would help him achieve a prosperous life. When Marissa looked at Chris, she saw a man who would help her pursue the Lord, someone who would help her cultivate the kind of spiritual life she dreamed of having. One day, both of their dreams came crashing down. But this did not result in the destruction of their marriage. Instead, it brought about the creation of something unexpected. Something beautiful. Something brand new.

In the 22^nd message of our "Unveiling Yahweh" series, we will be looking at God’s plans for us.

We have a way of interfering with God’s plans for our lives when we make sinful choices. When we reap the negative consequences of those decisions, it’s easy to despair about the future. But even when we sin, God still has a plan to do good in each of our lives. And as Dustin Renz shares out of Jeremiah 29, if we will submit to His plan, He will work good for us, even when we are facing the worst of circumstances.

Sin always comes with painful consequences.  Emotional, physical, or relational pain. And for many people, these consequences often stir up difficult questions. "If God loves me, why would He allow such hard consequences? Does this mean that God has forsaken me? Is there any way to move forward after this?" In today’s episode, we look to the Scripture to give biblical answers to some of these questions.

Resources

• #534 - A Firm Foundation: The (Real) Grace and Love of God (Podcast Episode)

God genuinely loves us, but unless we are doing our utmost to repent of sin and worldliness, He is not going to be pleased with us. And while He does not expect us to achieve sinless perfection, He does expect us to obey His call to "Be holy as I am holy."

Host: Steve Gallagher has joined me in the studio. Steve is the founder and President of Pure Life Ministries. Steve, it’s good to see you again. Thanks for coming by.

Steve: Happy to be here with you once again.

Host: Steve, as we continue our discussion in your book “Intoxicated with Babylon,” we're talking today about the command from God, “Be holy, as I am holy.” A.W. Tozer said, “We have learned to live with unholiness and have come to look upon it as the natural and expected thing.” Now in your book you share how looking back into the 1900s, holiness really used to be the expected thing.

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Steve: There was a time in the church when there was such a biblical standard amongst God's people that there was almost like a peer pressure to live a godly and holy life. There just were things that you didn't do. You didn't go out drinking or dancing or even things that we consider normal nowadays, like wearing makeup or jewelry. There were just things that Christians knew were not appropriate and it was understood across the entire church world that this was the way it was.

Host: Yes. And even though you're talking about how it was in the church, that had an impact all across our culture. If you look at 1940s America, there was still a significant influence towards at least some level of morality because of what the church believed and practiced.

Steve: I believe because of the level of consecration that was in the church in those days, there was still a great deal of spiritual power at work in our country. But as that level of holiness has dissipated over the last 50-60 years, so also has the power to go with it.

Host: Well, Steve, whatever happened to that concept of holiness in the church then?

Steve: I believe there are a couple of different factors that have come into play. First of all, theologically, some people took exception to that term. I know that there were those who under the name of holiness took it to extremes to where they lived a rigid lifestyle and we're very legalistic. But that was really a very small portion of those who were trying to live a holy life before God. For the most part, Christians who were endeavoring to live a holy life were doing it with a sincere heart and an earnest desire to live a godly life. But some people took an exception to that and over time they were able to demonize the term holiness in much the same way the liberal press has demonized the term abstinence in our day.
       So, now it's almost a term that is politically incorrect within the church. You just don't hear about holiness anymore, and that's a terrible tragedy amongst God’s people. The other thing that came into play was television and all the other things that lured Christians into the world. That caused that separation from the world to disintegrate until really the church has become just one step away from the world.

Host: Well, Steve, regardless of our current understanding of holiness, the fact still remains that holiness is still a central requirement of being a true believer.

Steve: Absolutely. As you mentioned, God said, “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” And the book of Hebrews even says, “Without holiness, no one will see the Lord.” (Hebrews 12:14b, 1984 NIV) So we have to ask ourselves if we really believe what the Bible says. We have so watered it down and kind of ignored statements that are very clear-cut commandments because we don't want to live by them. So, we've just kind of created a different gospel that is without any requirements or expectations from this holy God. The problem with that is that when we stand before this holy God, all of that is going to be shown for what it really is.

Host: Well, Steve, before we get into a discussion about how we achieve holiness or how we pursue holiness in our lives, perhaps we should just stop here and define what it is. What is holiness?

Steve: Let me say what holiness isn't first of all. Holiness is not sinless perfection. When we're talking about holiness, we're talking about a spiritual condition where a person has become consecrated to the Lord to such a degree that he has an intimate, vibrant relationship with Jesus Christ. There is no outward ongoing sin in his life. There is no attachment to the world. There is a true flow of God's love through his life. I think that describes what holiness is.

Host: I wonder if one of the reasons that we have kind of discarded the concept of holiness is because when we hear things like, “There is no sin.” We just can't meet that expectation.

Steve: Yeah, if someone gets the idea in their mind that God is demanding sinless perfection then it can be overwhelming and demoralizing and the person just feels like, “What's the point? There's no way I can ever arrive at that place.” But that really isn't what God expects.

Host: So really, is it right to say then that holiness is something that God wants us to be pursuing?

Steve: Yes, holiness is something that we should be pursuing. The Bible uses the term sanctification to describe the process whereby God is extracting the sin, selfishness and pride out of our inner being and replacing it with Himself. As that exchange is going on, we are going through a process of becoming holy. I guess you could say it this way, holiness is the goal, and sanctification is the process to lead us to that goal. So, the pursuit of holiness is simply just the process of sanctification.

Host: Steve, you said in your book that separating oneself from the world does not necessarily bring a person into holiness, but it puts that believer in a position of being made holy. Can you explain what you mean by that?

Steve: Well, we all know about these different denominational groups that are completely separated from the outside. There are the Amish and there are some of the Mennonite or German Baptist groups, where they are a community unto themselves and they have anywhere from some to no connections with the outside world. That in itself does not make you a holy person. I have been around some of these folks and there is a refreshing innocence there because of that separation. But our separation is unto God. It's not enough to just be disconnected from the carnal world around us, we have to be connected to the Holy Spirit, to Jesus Christ. That is what true holiness is.

Host: Steve, one of the great misunderstandings that you talk about is this idea that holiness is a transactional thing and that it's just going to happen automatically. The thought of, “When I die, the Lord's just going to make me holy.” What place does actual holy living play into our preparation for the end of our life in this world?

Steve: That concept that you just mentioned has been propagated over the years by those who are seemingly frantically trying to maintain their life in this world and feel no expectation from God to change. And so, they've kind of devised this entire scenario where they can just live like the devil basically and then one day they die and go to heaven because they said a prayer and went forward at an altar call one time. That is decidedly not what the New Testament teaches. It is very, very clear in Scripture that we are being, first of all, tested during our time here on earth. We're going to prove out where our heart lies and the reality of our commitment to Christ. Secondly, we are being prepared for eternal life. We are being trained on this earth to be used by God in the eternal realm in ways that we don't even understand yet. These are things that are beyond our comprehension and yet it seems to be the case that God is doing a definite work inside of us here to prepare us for something eternal.

Host: Amen. What would you say to the individual that may be listening who has a sight of the holiness of God, yet when they look at themselves just see how unholy they are?

Steve: Well, that's a great thing really, because that's exactly what should happen. When you truly see the Lord, you realize how far you are away from His standard and the way that He is, but there is a freedom in that because God loves sinners. He really does love us and all He asks of us is to fight. All He's asking is that we strive towards holiness. That we do our best to live a life pleasing to Him and do our utmost to repent of sin. That we do our best to turn away from the things of this world and turn to Him. As long as we are in that battle, God is pleased with our lives.

Each year after our Annual Conference, a guest speaker will share a special, conference-themed message in our Sunday chapel service. This year's theme was, “Watch and Pray,” and Faith Homes minister Dave Leopold joined us, encouraging us to wait for the Lord’s appearing with eager anticipation, just like those who awaited His first coming.

So, God calls you to preach to a tribe of cannibals. You move your family, learn their language—only to find they have no concern over sin, or judgment, or eternity. This was the dilemma Don Richardson found himself in as he sought to evangelize the primitive Sawi people. Thankfully, he pressed himself into entire dependence upon the Holy Spirit to show him how to spread the good news of Jesus Christ in this seemingly impossible context. And when God moved, He moved dramatically! In this episode, we’ll talk about why you should read “Peace Child” by Don Richardson.

Resources

• Peace Child (Book) By Don Richardson

In the 22^nd message of our "Unveiling Yahweh" series, we will be looking at the Wisdom of God.

Man’s wisdom and God’s wisdom couldn’t be more different from one another. We see wisdom as simply intellect, but God’s wisdom is a life of goodness and righteousness – two things which we, in our sinful state, desperately need. Thankfully, God provided the way to come into this kind of wisdom: through the Cross of Jesus Christ. In today’s sermon, we dive deep into the wisdom of the Cross as revealed in 1 Corinthians 1.

If you search "how to overcome sexual sin," you'll get a lot of different opinions. Some are totally secular while others are taken from Scripture—like being accountable, developing an unselfish lifestyle, or starting a prayer life. In today’s show, we’ll explore another powerful spiritual tool—fasting. We'll dive into why it works, how to approach it with the right heart, and offer practical tips to make it part of your walk.

Resources

• The Crucified Lifestyle (Book) By Dustin Renz

In the 21st message of our "Unveiling Yahweh" series, we look at how God redeems us.

The Bible testifies to the fact that we are all sinners in need of redemption, and it also testifies to how God fulfills that need. But unfortunately there are many attending church today who, while claiming to be redeemed, still live a sinful lifestyle. This is not God’s plan, and there is only one way to come into the true redemption God has for His people.

Accountability is a big buzzword in addiction recovery circles, some even suggesting that it’s the main thing people need to find freedom. But Christians must carefully examine these things in the light of Scripture. In today's episode, we'll give a biblical answer to the question: “What role does accountability play in overcoming sexual sin?"

Resources

• Check Out Our Residential Program

Jesus clearly told us we can do nothing apart from Him. In spite of this, we often try to accomplish things in our own strength. So He lets us experience our weakness to help us truly depend on Him for all things. This is the final part of our short series, "Absolute Surrender."

Host: Kathy, we want to continue in our discussions in Absolute Surrender and the chapter today is entitled, “Ye Are the Branches.” Andrew Murray opened this chapter with John 15 beginning in verse 4. “Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.” (John 15:4-5, NKJV) He addresses this chapter to Christian workers, but I think you rightfully pointed out as we were talking before this recording that this is just a universal truth to believers.

Kathy: Yeah, it is. What else can be said? What we're talking about is absolute dependence on the root. Jesus is our vine, and if we are connected to Him and dependent upon Him, we will bear much fruit. Not only will we bear much fruit, but we will have a life of peace and rest, It's a joy to depend on the Lord. It takes a long time for some of us to get that, but it is a joy to be dependent upon Jesus Christ.

Host: You know, when we read here that He is the vine and we're branches, our understanding of that or maybe I should say our walking out of that tends to be so superficial. It almost has been dwindled down to nothing more than, “Yeah, I believe Jesus exists,” and then we go on with our life. What does it mean to be absolutely dependent on Him? How has that become real in your life?

Kathy: Jesus said, “Apart from Me, you can do nothing.” (John 15:5b, NKJV) But “I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.” (Philippians 4:13, NKJV) Those two verses mean so much to me. And I don't know this fully, but I'm learning that dependence comes from brokenness through failure and through much, much weakness. I'm dependent on the vine to live the Christian life, literally. I can't do this. I don't have what it takes to be a Christian. Obviously, we have our part to play, but I am connected to the vine and that is where my life is coming from.

Host: You know, the problem is that when we hear, “Apart from Me you can do nothing,” we don't believe that.

Kathy: No, we don't believe that because we think we can do plenty. I remember back in the early days of the Residential Program seeing this whole teaching of being weak and humble get some of the men in the program very upset because they felt like, “God doesn't want me to be weak.” That is very much what's in all of us. We don't want to admit we are weak. We don’t want to be humble. We don't want to have to lose ourselves.

Host: Right. Well, there's a reason why the Scripture says, “Crucify yourself daily.” That means that self is utterly destroyed.

Kathy: Yeah, we don't want that. We want Jesus to be for us. We want His seal of approval on everything we put our hand to. But man, you start talking about death to self and yeah, we don't like that.

Host: Yeah, Andrew Murray finished on this point of absolute dependence. He wrote, “If I am something, then God is not everything; but when I become nothing, God can become all.” You know, we sometimes sing the song, “Jesus My All in All.” But man, there really is a lack of that being real for us. And God knows that.
         He wants to be our all in all. He doesn't tell us to crucify the flesh just because He wants us to go through pain and suffering. He really wants to be our all in all, but we can't have that unless we can begin to understand what this first point is, absolute dependence on Him. And you've said it already, it just requires brokenness and humility.

Kathy: Yeah. God is always so amazingly patient. He’s always ushering us toward that life with Him and the problem is we're so reluctant and so resistant and don't really believe that God is asking that much of us. So, He just has to keep nudging and wooing and calling and correcting and disciplining.

Host: And He's so faithful to do that.

Kathy: Yeah. I love him for it.

Host: Murray also talks about the life of the branch here. He says, it is a life of deep restfulness. He wrote, “No one who learns to rest upon the living Christ can become slothful, for the closer your contact with Christ the more of the Spirit of His zeal and love will be borne up in you.” When we think of the restfulness of the life of a Christian it is a danger that we can think, “Oh well, now I can be slothful. Now I can lay back. Now I don't have to keep fighting.” But that’s not true. The life of the branches is a life of work. There's stuff that must be going on in the branch for there to be fruit.

Kathy: Well, the restfulness I think comes from knowing that you're connected to the vine and that the vine is feeding you the life, but that life is quickening you. It's putting you to life. It's not putting you to sleep.

Host: Yeah. You and I are both into gardening. As gardeners, we love spring because we watch the rose bushes, we watch the fruit trees and watch the buds start to pop out. Then we really get excited when the leaves start to pop out. They're not being slothful.

Kathy: Yeah, and they're not sleeping either.

Host: Lots of stuff going on there.

Kathy: That's right. Producing fruit.

Host: Yeah. And that's his Third Point. In the life of the branch, if there's life in it, there ought to be much fruitfulness.

Kathy: Yeah. There’s restfulness because you're connected to the vine, but there's also fruitfulness because you're connected to the vine. You can't have fruit apart from Him. That's what Jesus was saying, “Apart from me. You can't do anything.” In other words, He was saying, “What are you doing out there? That's not me working in you.”

Host: Yeah. And He's not talking about work. Talk about that because I know the Lord has really made that real to you over the years. There’s a difference between work and fruitfulness. Most people in ministry in America need to hear this.

Kathy: Let me just say it this way, when I am connected to the vine, I love people. I love laying my life down. I don't see what I'm losing. I don't see any sacrifice. I don't see that something's being taken from me.

Host: It's not a drudgery.

Kathy: No. But when I am working and it's me working, I get burnt out. I'm tired. I want some R&R. Give me a nice long vacation somewhere. That is the mantra going on inside the heart and the mind of somebody who is working in themselves, doing their own thing and separated at some level from that fruitfulness that comes from being connected to the vine.

Host: Yeah. And can I just say that that's what we're prone to do. There is a need for us to constantly be looking at our life and our work and evaluating if it’s us or if it’s the Lord. If it's me, I need to repent of that.

Kathy: Yeah. The other thing is that men and women are different. Men tend to be workaholics, and they derive their fulfillment from their occupation. God created men that way, but that can be really misconstrued and taken to an extreme and an excuse to be ambitious. And it's easy to justify that as, “I'm serving the Lord. This is for God.” Well, I think that the Lord would probably say to us in that case, “Come and be Mary first and then you can go do the Martha thing. But right now, you need to be like Mary.” And men and women alike don’t like being Mary. We don't want to sit at the feet of Jesus. We find it boring.

Host: Well, this really brings us to Andrew Murray's fourth point here, that the life of the believer involves close communion with Jesus. The branch has to be connected to the vine for the sap to be able to run from the vine into the branch with the resulting fruit we talked about. Well, it's the same with our spiritual life.

Kathy: Yeah, nothing of any real value is going to happen apart from that. And before we have the motivation to serve and be fruitful, there has to be a desire and a hunger to be connected to Him. Let Him decide what ministry will be for. Let Him decide what your actual fruitfulness in life will be. Being joined to Christ is more than just a nice Bible verse we read. It is everything and whatever comes out of our lives, it's up to Him. Let Him make the decisions, but nothing is going to happen outside of that connection.

Host: Yeah. Well, his final point in this chapter is in fact the title of the book, Absolute Surrender. And he basically said what you just said. He said, “My relationship is just this: I am utterly given up to the vine, and the vine can give me as much or as little sap as it chooses. Here I am at its disposal and the vine can do with me what it likes.” What a blessed place to be.

Kathy: Amen. It is. That is rest and that is peace.

In the 20th message of our "Unveiling Yahweh" series, we will be looking at how God breaks the power of sin.

Anyone who has given themselves over to sexual sin for any length of time can attest to the strong grip it possesses once given over to. But in today’s sermon, Steve Gallagher shares how the Lord has helped break the power of sin in his life through unexpected means: through trials and challenges and a constant call to submit to God's will.