It's an amazing thing when the person who sees our sins and flaws most clearly is also completely devoted to seeing us walk in victory. In Ep. 05 of our series, "On the Same Team," we'll talk with PLM graduates Bob and Lori about one of the big focuses in their marriage: building each other up in love.

If we approach Scripture or life's challenges through human logic, our perspective will be devoid of spiritual wisdom. In this "Timeless Truths" segment, Steve Gallagher urges us to stop relying on our own understanding and instead turn to the Lord, so that He can impart the mind of Christ to us.

Host: Steve Gallagher has joined me in the studio today. Steve, we want to talk today about the wisdom of “kosmos.” You discussed this at some length in your book, “Intoxicated with Babylon.” And in that chapter where you discussed the subject, you talked about the Western mind and how it has permeated so much of Christianity in America today. What did you mean by the Western mind?

Steve: Well, Paul differentiates in the book of 1 Corinthians between the Jewish mindset and the Greek mindset. The Jewish mindset tied up in a nationalistic fervor regarding the Messiah and the temple and other elements of their cultural heritage. But the Greeks had a different way of approaching life, and it was through what they would call wisdom which was their Greek term “sofía.” Athens was the cultural center of Greek philosophy and their approach to looking at spirituality came through the processes of different theories that they would spin as they sat around and discussed things. So, to put it in a nutshell, the Western mind is simply a way to describe people who approach the Word of God and life’s problems through human logic rather than through what God has accomplished in their heart.

Host: Well, God did give us a mind, so what's wrong with approaching life’s issues using the natural reasoning mind?

Steve: We have to remember that Paul said, “The mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so.” (Romans 8:7, NASB) There is a very profound truth in that statement. We have a nature that is fallen because of our sin disposition. Left to ourselves our minds are going to revolve around self and selfishness. It will revolve around the way we want things to be and it will revolve around pride. So, when we're approaching spiritual matters, for us to just depend upon the logic of the human mind is dangerous because it's founded upon a faulty foundation.
         The only difference between a discerning spirit and a critical spirit is brokenness. Both use the human mind to look at a person’s faults and weaknesses and struggles, but an unbroken person looks at those faults through a self-righteous perspective. A person who has undergone the processes of God's discipline and knows what it means to be broken, who has gone through Calvary and has had his own sin issues dealt with, that person is going to look at another person's faults and struggles with a completely different mindset. It's going to be the mind of Christ that he is going to look at those problems through. And therein lies the difference between godly discipleship and most of the therapy that is being utilized under the guise of Christian Psychology in the United States today.

Host: Well, you jumped right to the next subject. We do also want to talk about psychology, especially psychotherapy in the church today. Many people think about psychology with some form of the following logical trail of thought: if I break my finger, I go to the doctor. If my car is not working, I take it to the mechanic. So, if my mind is broken, why not go to the psychologist who is supposed to be the expert in the mind? What are your thoughts on that?

Steve: Well, the mind isn't the problem, the heart is the problem. And until you get the heart straightened out, you can't straighten out the mind. The problem is that we all have faulty minds. The psychologist has a faulty mind. And if that psychologist hasn't truly been to the cross and gone through a repentance process himself, then he's in no condition spiritually to lead someone else to that place.
       You cannot lead another person spiritually any further than you've gone yourself. You can spend 20 years studying all the different nuances of psychology and the different theories and therapies. You can become the world's leading expert on all those things, but if you haven't surrendered at the cross and you don't know what it's like to have the mind of Christ, you're not going to have the ability to help Christians live a victorious Christian life.

Host: And that really is the goal. The goal isn't for a person to feel better; the goal is to be victorious in their walk with Christ.

Steve: The only way a person's really going to have fulfillment in life is to find it in Christ. The problem is that a lot of people don't want to go to the cross and surrender to the Lord, because they want to stay in control of their lives. They don't want to give up anything. They want to fit their lives around their worldly pursuits. And the truth is that for the most part, psychology teaches a form of life that says you don't have to go to the cross and surrender anything. It's an alternative to going to the cross, really.

Host: In fact, you've said it is a false substitute for going to the cross or it is a line of thought that loves self as opposed to denying self.

Steve: Yeah. And so, if you don't want to deny self and you don't even want to go in that direction, psychology is a great option for you.

Host: And there is such a tremendous movement to accept that psychologized view in the church and very often we see this in the form of what we call “integrationism.” This is the perspective that we ought to integrate this worldly philosophy with the Word of God. What is the problem with that?

Steve: Well, the problem is that the two are completely conflicting in what they're teaching. You're either going to the cross with your life, with your teachings, with what you are sharing with others, or you're going away from the cross and finding some way to comfort people in their sin. That's really the difference. You can't combine those two opposing philosophies. It's impossible.

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Host: They really are oil and water. I know that you go into this at great length in the rest of your book, “Intoxicated with Babylon,” but what is it about God's people today that opens us up to the acceptance of these kinds of ideas?

Steve: Well, when you are in large part lending your mind to the voice of the world through television, through the internet, through school and worldly friends or coworkers, when your life is being much more influenced by the spirit of the world than it is by the spirit of Jesus Christ, you are just simply going to be much more vulnerable to their solutions, their ideas and their answers. You are just going to be very open to those kinds of teachings.

Host: You've been helping men and women in sexual sin for over 20 years now. And despite the fact that some look at Christianity and look at the Word of God as being too simple to handle what they call the deep emotional problems of man, it's your experience that there is a true power in Christ to overcome those problems.

Steve: Yes. And I had enormous emotional problems myself. But I have found this to be true not only in my own life, but in the lives of many that I've dealt with over the years, that when Jesus Christ has his rightful place in a person's life; when a person has really gotten a good sight of the Lord; when a person is really connected with the Lord through a strong devotional life; when a person has gone to the cross, and so on, those problems that may have seemed like a mountain before quickly become nothing more than a mole hill. It's just true that when God is big, our problems become small. But one of the greatest challenges that we have dealing with people who are struggling is that all the attractions and pleasures of the world have been huge and God has been tiny in their perspective. So, of course their problems are going to be huge as well. And our job at Pure Life Ministries is to turn that equation around and make God very big in their minds and hearts. And when we are able to help a person accomplish gain that perspective, then their problems are going to be very manageable.

Host: Amen. Well, Steve, I hope that will be an encouragement to those who may be listening. To those who may have bounced back and forth from all kinds of worldly wisdom looking for an answer to know that there is an answer for them. There is hope for them and it is found at the cross in Christ.

Steve: Absolutely.

Host: Amen.

When Nolan and Kendra Godfrey entered our counseling programs, they were ready to rid their marriage of sexual sin forever. But as they received biblical counseling, they realized that sexual sin was only a small part of their problem. What was far more destructive to both of them was their love of what the world offered. In Ep. 04 of "On the Same Team," we'll talk about why every Christian couple must vigilantly guard their hearts and minds from the spirit of this world.

In the 1st message of our Unveiling Yahweh series, we will be looking at what it means to know God.

Eternal life comes from an intimate relationship with the Lord. But since The Fall, mankind has lost that intimacy and developed wrong views of God and His character. This has caused a host of pain, suffering and sin, as we see all around us each day. The solution each of us needs to find peace and freedom is to return to a true, intimate knowledge of God.

Join us for our new sermon series, "Unveiling Yahweh", as we seek to magnify the true beauty and wonder of God’s nature.

If both spouses truly want to be united and devoted to one another, how do they walk out that desire? What specific things should they be doing (and NOT doing)? In Ep. 03 of "On the Same Team," Jeff and Rose Colón share some of their extensive counseling experience with us as they talk about the biggest challenges that couples seeking restoration will have to navigate.

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Check out the first video in our podcast series going through Jeff and Rose Colón’s book: God is Willing and Able to Transform ANY Marriage | Ashes to Beauty

If you're interested in Jeff and Rose Colón’s book, purchase it here: From Ashes to Beauty

In Ep. 02 of our series, "On the Same Team," we continue our conversation with Pure Life founders Steve and Kathy Gallagher. Like so many couples, Steve and Kathy’s marriage had been utterly shattered by pride, selfishness and infidelity. But when they were both broken over their own sin, something beautiful began to happen. They became unified and devoted in a way they never had before.

It can be difficult for even a sincere believer to know what’s right andwrong when everything around them is screaming out conflicting messages. ButGod has given us His Word to anchor us in the Truth. Join us for our next PureLife LIVE to learn key spiritual principles to guide you in your walk withthe Lord amidst our immoral culture.

When Jesus was on the cross being scorned and mocked by those who were crucifying Him, He said, "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." In this "Timeless Truths" segment, Judy Lucas talks about how, as followers of Christ, we also are called to unconditional forgiveness.

Host: Judy, we want to look at an issue that is pretty common with some of the women we deal with whose husbands have been in sexual sin. It deals with the issue of forgiveness without repentance. And here's really what we want to talk about. For the person who's been sinned against, how is God calling them to deal with that issue, particularly when the person who sinned against them is not completely repentant?]

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Judy: There really isn't a very straightforward, simple answer to that, because as you read the Bible, you do read examples where someone repents and then you forgive them. The classic verse on that is Luke 17:3, “Be on your guard! If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.” (Luke 17:3, NASB)

Host: Now, I can read that as saying that if you sin against me, but you don't ask me to forgive you, then I don't have to forgive you. And how often could we want to grab hold of that interpretation?

Judy: Well, there are a lot of times that we want to grab hold of that interpretation. I can remember feeling that way, but this is a core issue. We can’t go off our feelings about this. We have examples in the Bible where Jesus Himself was hanging from across, looking down at those who nailed Him there and were mocking Him and He said, “Father, forgive them. They don't know what they're doing.” Another example is Hebrews 12:15, which talks about how we should not let a root of bitterness grow up that can cause us trouble.
        Matthew 5:44 says, “I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.”  (Matthew 5:44, KJV) So, the Bible is clearly calling us to forgive even if the other person isn't truly repentant or broken yet, because when we're choosing to walk in unforgiveness, we're choosing to walk in sin ourselves. And so, what we're doing is cutting off our relationship and our communion with God.

Host: It seems to me that the person who wants to read that passage in Luke 17 and say, “Well, they haven't come to me. They haven't asked me for forgiveness, so I'm not going to forgive them. I'm going to stay mad at them.” Really the difference between that person and the person who's willing to go to their brother or sister and try to help them to understand that they've been offended by them is that one person is focused on themselves while the other is more interested in helping the other person out.

Judy: Very true, because the first person you mentioned is reacting to their feelings while the other is more concerned about the other person’s heart. They are asking themselves things like, “What is this person’s relationship with God really like?” And the concern should be that if the sin continues, where is that going to lead this person? There's a passage in Matthew 18:15-16 that gives directives for us to go in love with the attitude of Christ and talk to our brother about why we are hurting or why we were offended. So, there's room for that. But it needs to be restorative. If he doesn't repent, which is often the case, then you have a choice to take that next step and go to a pastor or another godly man and bring him into the situation. But that's you praying through and using wisdom on what to do next.

Host: Yeah, but you must not hold bitterness or a grudge or stop showing that person love. As much as it depends on you, you should have peace with your brother or sister — even if they’ve offended you.

Judy: Absolutely. And that really is the crucified life, where you are willing to deny yourself, pick up your cross and follow after Him.

Host: Now we understand from a human perspective that some of the sin from one spouse toward another can be horrendous and we understand the natural response to that. So I guess to the person out there who's struggling with this, they should know we're called to a divine response, not a natural response.
        And I guess the best suggestion for a person struggling to forgive is to look to the Lord, put your eyes on Jesus and remember what He did for you as you alluded to earlier in our discussion. We need to remember that while we were yet in sin, He died for us. He forgave us. That's our example. That can go a long way in helping us get through those tough times when we really have been offended. To sum it up, our response needs to go beyond what comes naturally to us.

It's time for Ep. 01 of our new series, "On the Same Team!" In this series, we'll be interviewing six couples. Each of them have had to fight their way out of the horrors of sexual sin and have found out that there is tremendous spiritual strength when they are truly united with their spouse. In this episode, Steve and Kathy Gallagher kick things off by talking about why husbands and wives have to be on the same page spiritually.

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Those that genuinely surrender to God are the ones that obtain victory over sin. They surrender to Him because they trust Him. And they trust Him because they believe that He is good. In this episode, we look at one of the most attacked attributes of God: His goodness.

Resources

• Victory (Podcast Series) By Pure Life Ministries
• Living in Victory through the Power of Mercy (Book) By Steve Gallagher

When the truth is preached with boldness in the fire of God, people will either respond in repentance or will be filled with rage. Oftentimes this results in believers being martyred for their faith by those who are under Satan's control. This is Part 4 of our short series, "Tongues of Fire: The Early Church."

Host: Steve Gallagher has joined me in the studio. Steve is the founder of Pure Life Ministries. Steve it’s good to see you again.

Steve: I'm happy to be here.

Host: Steve, we want to continue our discussions in your series, the early Church and looking at the book of Acts. One of the things going on in the book of Acts is that we see some tensions arising within the early Church. Talk to us about what those are.

Steve: These tensions you see come forth in Acts 6 really come out of the Jewish community itself there in Jerusalem, because you have two different communities of Jewish people. You have those who are from Palestine, Judea, or Jerusalem and have lived their whole lives there. Then you have Jews that have returned there from out in the Roman world somewhere. Those are the Hellenized Jews. And what really causes the problem is mostly the Pharisees, because they are so disdainful of Jews living outside of Judea.
        So, suddenly you have 3000 Jews getting saved and many of those are Hellenized Jews. So, they are bringing that same tension into this new church. It wasn’t as bad though because when you have Christ in the mix, people are going to be more humble and loving. But still underlying that are some struggles that come forth in the church. So, in this chapter we see this tension coming forth in dealing with widows in the church where some of the widows from the Hellenized portion of the community are feeling neglected. What the Apostles do is they appoint 7 deacons to manage the affairs of the church so they can continue focusing on ministering.

Host: Well, in your talk you really laid out that this was the beginning of the structure of the Church. Talk to us a little bit about what that structure in the Early Church was.

Steve: Yeah, it did just kind of unfold this way and you see the Holy Spirit at work behind the scenes. You had the 12 Apostles and they kind of governed everything. Then these deacons are appointed to administrate what we would call the supportive services or the behind-the-scenes tasks. And then you have the congregation. And they also play a role in the function of the church. In other words, they'll end up voting for offices and so on. So, you have these three tiers being established in the Early Church already.

Host: Well, Steve, as the story moves on, it goes into the account of Stephen, who was actually one of the deacons in the Early Church. And as we know, the Lord really used him, but it provoked an attack upon him by the Hellenized Jews that you mentioned living in Jerusalem. Tell us about that.

Steve: Stephen was very bold with the Gospel, and he apparently was out preaching publicly, and the Lord was working mighty miracles through him. And Satan always attacks when God is working through an individual. In this particular case we read of this Hellenized group of Jews who begin debating with Stephen, and what's interesting about that is that Cilicia is one of the provinces these Jews are from. And who is from Cilicia? Saul of Tarsus. Knowing what Saul's personality was like, it's very likely that he was involved in these debates. Which means he was likely involved with distorting the things Stephen was saying to be able to persecute him.

Host: Well, Steve, for those who don't know the story, they became infuriated with Stephen and dragged him before the Sanhedrin. Tell us what happened next.

Steve: Well, he's standing before these 70 venerable leaders of the nation and he gives a long sermon, and basically what he does is recount the entire history of the Jewish nation. Now to us in our Western mindset, we would be thinking why is he going to all this detail? You know, TMI, too much information. Why is he telling all these different aspects of the story?
        But see, that was the way the Jews operated. They would have been completely comfortable with that and it also established the fact that Stephen was Orthodox in his thinking. It helped to establish some credibility. But when he gets to the end of the message, he zeroes in on them and how they have been like their fathers who have rebelled against the Lord throughout the entire history of the nation. He really just nails them. He calls them stiff necked hypocrites.

Host: Well, as full of pride as Jesus made it obvious to us that they all were, we can only guess what their reaction was.

Steve: Well, they got furious, of course, and this is the way it always is. When the Lord uses you to express something that is wrong inside a person's heart, a person is going to do one of two things usually. They are either going to respond to the Lord or they're going to get mad. And that's what happens here. They go into an absolute rage. If it wasn't so true, they may not have gotten so angry, but he nailed them, and they went into a rage.
        They grabbed him, even though they knew that the Romans could easily come right in there and crucify every one of them for doing something like this. They were committing murder. But even in spite of that, they just shut that out of their minds. They were so filled with rage that they grabbed him and drug him out of the city, because you couldn't kill someone within the sacred bounds of the city, and they stoned him to death.

Host: Yeah, I appreciated the conclusion you had in this teaching about Stephen. Talk about the connection you saw between what was happening here with Stephen and how it is with people today.

Steve: Well, Stephen was the first martyr, which that word in the Greek means witness. He was one who would testify the truth, and that's what we've been called to do. Well depending on what the spiritual environment is during our time is going to determine the reaction we get from people. I've received that hateful anger many times for bringing forth a strong message, and in the days ahead, I think what we're going to see increasingly is that the stronger and more powerful the testimony, the more rage the enemy is going to unleash against us.

When a prominent couple did not allow their hearts to be purified by the fire that was burning in the early church, it led to their death. This fearful act of judgment filled the Church with holy fear and brought many outsiders to repentance and salvation. Don't miss Part 3 of our short series, “Tongues of Fire: The Early Church.”

Host: Steve, we're going to continue our discussions on a series that you taught our staff through at Pure Life entitled “The Early Church”. And we're looking today at Acts 5. Tell us a little bit about the backdrop of this chapter.

Steve: At the end of Chapter 4, Luke gives a somewhat lengthy summary statement of the condition of the Church at that time. I'll just put it to you this way, the Church was on fire. They were going after God with all their hearts. That was the overall atmosphere of the early Church at that time. And then after painting that picture, Luke eases into this next story by bringing up Barnabas. Barnabas had done something that was noteworthy, which was to sell a piece of land and bring the proceeds in and give that money to the disciples to be used for the Church. So, that all establishes the backdrop for the story we find in Chapter 5.

Host: Okay. Go ahead and share with us what that story is.

Steve: Well, this couple had become part of the Church and they saw what Barnabas had done. And no doubt people were really expressing their gratitude and their love for Barnabas. He was a very good man and this couple saw something in his generosity that really attracted them, and they wanted to appear to be that same way. So, they also had a piece of land that they sold, but they kept part of the money for themselves and presented it as if it was the entire proceeds of the sale, because they wanted the same kind of honor that they saw Barnabas receive. In essence they were blatantly lying to the Holy Spirit And in response, God struck them down dead on the spot.

Host: Why do you think that the Lord dealt with them so severely to the point of taking their lives?

Steve: Well, first of all, the Lord was intent on starting the Church off in a as pure a form as possible, and He wanted to preserve it from corruption. He wanted to at least keep that purity as long as He possibly could. But there's something deeper than even that, and that is that it is just one of the laws of the Kingdom of God that the more intimate you become with the Lord, the greater the consequences for sin. In other words, you can come into a tremendous knowledge of God through intimacy with Him, but if you abuse that position of knowing Him deeply and blatantly disobey Him, you can bring upon yourself severe judgment. So, that's really what a lot of this is.
        For instance, let me give you an example. Judas was numbered amongst the 12 disciples. He was with Jesus day in and day out for three years. And so, his crime was not so much that he turned Jesus into the authorities. His crime was against the intimate relationship that he had with Jesus Christ. He had so much light, and he rejected it. And that's really what this couple, Ananias and Sapphira did.

Host: At the time, Steve, the church was a very close-knit community. This must have had a real impact on that community.

Steve: Well, Luke says that great fear fell not only on the Christian community, but actually upon the whole city. The whole Jewish community was also pretty close-knit in that city and they kind of knew of the events happening in the early Church. So, when these two people were struck dead, it really affected people. It kind of forced Jewish people to make a decision about what they believed about this new Christian sect of Judaism, as they would have believed it to be.
        As far as the believers in the church, I think the fear of the Lord became so strong that it really caused believers to think seriously about the ramifications of their actions. And then this seemed to spawn a whole fresh new wave of revival as well, because after this happens more good things begin to happen. Even more people start getting saved. You would almost expect it to have had the opposite effect, but actually more people started coming to the Lord because of this incident.

Host: It makes you think that maybe we need something like that in the Church today.

Steve: It makes me think something like that's going to come our way.

Host: Yeah. Let’s talk also now about how the Jewish religious leaders responded to this incident.

Steve: Well, of course they were absolutely entrenched in their own doctrinal Orthodox thinking and teaching, and they would not open their minds up to anything outside of that. So, all this sort of thing did was just drive them into anger and they hauled the disciples into the Sanhedrin. But God bless Peter, he takes the opportunity again to get up in front of the Sanhedrin and preach his heart out. And most of the Sanhedrin wanted to kill all the disciples of Jesus, but really, I believe the Lord used Gamaliel to bring some wisdom into the council. Also it wasn't God's time for them to be martyred yet. So, they backed off of the idea of killing them and instead they gave them an intense beating.

Host: As I alluded to earlier, when we look at the condition of the Church today, I think we can't help but notice that there is a real lack of a genuine fear of God. We need to have that fear revived in us as believers in the current day that we live in.

Steve: Yeah, you really see a lack of reverence for the Lord. The attitude is almost as if you can obey Him if you feel like it, but if you don't feel like it, it's no big deal and God understands. It’s that kind of laissez-faire attitude that leaves the church with very little power. There's very little life in the church today. So, we see the lack that we have because of those attitudes that have become so enmeshed in our thinking.

Host: Yeah. And you mentioned earlier that because of this happening there was a growth of the Church. There was an increase of power in the Early Church, and we know that in the last days there's going to be a tremendous power that comes over true believers. So, something is going to have to happen as you mentioned to bring that about. And you can be in fear of that, but we can also look forward to it that in these dark days we might be a church full of power and full of light for a very lost world.

Steve: And that's partly why a lot of people believe that a persecution is coming and that it is going to act as a purifying agent in the church. Then out of that will spawn a new powerful wave of revival like we've never seen before.

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